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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on the back channel?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=238" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238</link>
	<description>passionate about intersection of people and technology</description>
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		<title>By: julien</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2743</link>
		<dc:creator>julien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2743</guid>
		<description>tommy: interesting. didn&#039;t realize it was preventing introductions. i wonder how many people feel that way.

mitch is right, we can&#039;t really &#039;fix&#039; this because there will always be channels. but it&#039;s about the conference taking ownership of the channel to ensure it all works smoothly. possibly even get a guy who will monitor and take care of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tommy: interesting. didn&#8217;t realize it was preventing introductions. i wonder how many people feel that way.</p>
<p>mitch is right, we can&#8217;t really &#8216;fix&#8217; this because there will always be channels. but it&#8217;s about the conference taking ownership of the channel to ensure it all works smoothly. possibly even get a guy who will monitor and take care of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2742</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2742</guid>
		<description>My last thoughts on this are to recommend to anyone coming to PAB2008 or any tech conference to have/borrow/rent a laptop to participate in the back channel, to blog, to post pictures, to stream (bandwidth permitting, of course) - there is great power there. But don&#039;t let it get too much in the way of human interaction, that&#039;s why we&#039;re there. I&#039;ll do my part for PAB by helping speakers and attendees understand that these channels are a part of tech-ish conferences, and forcing people to turn things off may not be the way to go.

We need to embrace the new tools, but leverage the fact that this is the only time in the year where a lot of us are physically in the same area. I&#039;ve got some ideas on this, as I&#039;m sure you do...

Also, I&#039;ll do my best to have A/C at more tables, to make sure no one is left out..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last thoughts on this are to recommend to anyone coming to PAB2008 or any tech conference to have/borrow/rent a laptop to participate in the back channel, to blog, to post pictures, to stream (bandwidth permitting, of course) &#8211; there is great power there. But don&#8217;t let it get too much in the way of human interaction, that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re there. I&#8217;ll do my part for PAB by helping speakers and attendees understand that these channels are a part of tech-ish conferences, and forcing people to turn things off may not be the way to go.</p>
<p>We need to embrace the new tools, but leverage the fact that this is the only time in the year where a lot of us are physically in the same area. I&#8217;ve got some ideas on this, as I&#8217;m sure you do&#8230;</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;ll do my best to have A/C at more tables, to make sure no one is left out..</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2741</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2741</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just waking up from my post-PAB haze and I am finally able to jump in on this conversation.

Most of what I want to say has been said, so let me just highlight some of the key threads in this discussion:

1) Julien kicked off the conference with the suggestion that people close their laptops and open their minds

2) The new reality is a social network that extends beyond physical limits, and people invest heavily in keeping those networks alive and the discussion alive

3) There is a certain amount of respect/decorum that is expected when people are presenting and others listening

4) IMing that assists people and adds value to the community has a place in extending the reach of the conference and its participants

5) Treat others in an online world they way you would treat them in person

Did I capture it all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just waking up from my post-PAB haze and I am finally able to jump in on this conversation.</p>
<p>Most of what I want to say has been said, so let me just highlight some of the key threads in this discussion:</p>
<p>1) Julien kicked off the conference with the suggestion that people close their laptops and open their minds</p>
<p>2) The new reality is a social network that extends beyond physical limits, and people invest heavily in keeping those networks alive and the discussion alive</p>
<p>3) There is a certain amount of respect/decorum that is expected when people are presenting and others listening</p>
<p>4) IMing that assists people and adds value to the community has a place in extending the reach of the conference and its participants</p>
<p>5) Treat others in an online world they way you would treat them in person</p>
<p>Did I capture it all?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Deys</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2740</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Deys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2740</guid>
		<description>Regarding the group at the back, sure it was partly the trouble makers in the &quot;back of the class&quot; but mostly just for the power! There was an extension cable and power bar set up between the two tables. In a place like Ryerson that is set up for computer with &quot;workstations&quot; (power and network) that happens less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the group at the back, sure it was partly the trouble makers in the &#8220;back of the class&#8221; but mostly just for the power! There was an extension cable and power bar set up between the two tables. In a place like Ryerson that is set up for computer with &#8220;workstations&#8221; (power and network) that happens less.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Vallier</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2738</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Vallier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2738</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;m getting to be a little late here, but I&#039;d like to throw my couple of pennies in none the less. I&#039;ll try to stray away from the interruption side, though, as it seems to have been well covered, and focus more on seclusion.

Both Bob and Mark made a comment on the fact that people had moved to the front tables on Sunday morning, and I was one of the people who did so. It wasn&#039;t because I felt sorry for these poor tables, all set up and not used, but because I was tired of feeling outcasted by sitting near the back without a laptop.

On Saturday, there were multiple times I wanted to introduce myself, or simply say hello, to people nearby, or even at the same table, but because they were participating in the chat, I felt as though I would be interrupting them. I wouldn&#039;t interrupt Bob talking to Mark, and I wouldn&#039;t interrupt him if he was that active in a text-based conversation to him, either. I ended up having to wait until the conference was done for the day to simply say hello to the other person at my table.

And while I said I would avoid discussing the interruption side, the decision to move to the front was based on this: If I&#039;m not going to to be able to meet and network with the people around me, I might as well sit at the front, alone, to take in the speaker&#039;s presentations.


Now, all of that said, I am on Mitch&#039;s side. Things like this chat room and Twitter conversations, and IMs and Facebook discussions and forum threads are going to happen. It&#039;s a reality of the world we&#039;re in these days. I can see the value in having them around (Though, unofficial of course) and can see the value in not. I guess I just, personally, wasn&#039;t expecting it to be so obvious and clustered together.

I&#039;ll be back next year, likely laptop-less again, and with or without a back channel of sorts.

Thanks for the great times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m getting to be a little late here, but I&#8217;d like to throw my couple of pennies in none the less. I&#8217;ll try to stray away from the interruption side, though, as it seems to have been well covered, and focus more on seclusion.</p>
<p>Both Bob and Mark made a comment on the fact that people had moved to the front tables on Sunday morning, and I was one of the people who did so. It wasn&#8217;t because I felt sorry for these poor tables, all set up and not used, but because I was tired of feeling outcasted by sitting near the back without a laptop.</p>
<p>On Saturday, there were multiple times I wanted to introduce myself, or simply say hello, to people nearby, or even at the same table, but because they were participating in the chat, I felt as though I would be interrupting them. I wouldn&#8217;t interrupt Bob talking to Mark, and I wouldn&#8217;t interrupt him if he was that active in a text-based conversation to him, either. I ended up having to wait until the conference was done for the day to simply say hello to the other person at my table.</p>
<p>And while I said I would avoid discussing the interruption side, the decision to move to the front was based on this: If I&#8217;m not going to to be able to meet and network with the people around me, I might as well sit at the front, alone, to take in the speaker&#8217;s presentations.</p>
<p>Now, all of that said, I am on Mitch&#8217;s side. Things like this chat room and Twitter conversations, and IMs and Facebook discussions and forum threads are going to happen. It&#8217;s a reality of the world we&#8217;re in these days. I can see the value in having them around (Though, unofficial of course) and can see the value in not. I guess I just, personally, wasn&#8217;t expecting it to be so obvious and clustered together.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be back next year, likely laptop-less again, and with or without a back channel of sorts.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great times.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2737</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2737</guid>
		<description>what an awesome discussion! you guys continue to rock!

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what an awesome discussion! you guys continue to rock!</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: isabelle Michaud</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2735</link>
		<dc:creator>isabelle Michaud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2735</guid>
		<description>Hey, of course this is &quot;the new reality.&quot; Everyone knows that. I totally could have brought my laptop (I decided not to) and participated in what you were doing and I would have been just as happy doing it. Some people chose the &quot;clickaty click&quot; and some people chose the traditional way of listening. Your choice is valid in any case. However, after reading the chat log, I pretty much decided that my choice was, indeed, the right one for me. There wasn&#039;t anything informative in the chat...hahaha...was just a bunch of stuff about Mitch glasses and mild flirting (as usual.) So,fine, if that&#039;s what you choose in your life, to talk about Mitch glasses...go ahead! We&#039;re all free and this is &quot;the new reality&quot; as Mitch said. I don&#039;t have a problem with this then... I am happy with my choice, though, to listen the old fashion way.Alright...this is it and that&#039;s the way it is... Everyone can adjust their own way then...and make their own choice.It was a good thing to talk about it, I see that everyone has a different take on it. I would say to just let it go and accept that it&#039;s the way it is and move on. If I ever present, I will know that people on the &quot;clickaty click&quot; aren&#039;t listening and I will present to the ones who are listening. No problem...I do that when I teach. The ones who listen are the ones I care about more anyway...so...it&#039;s all fine and good. If you want to pay X amount of money to be sitting there and goof off, it&#039;s totally your choice. All work and no play makes for a boring life eh? So play away! Go ahead! Have fun! Life is too short. My personal choice is to be engaged with my two ears and eyes and heart with the people there. Your choice is to be engaged in the chat at an other level.Maybe the traditional social interaction of the conference (meeting people, shaking hands, meeting new people) is making *some* people feel shy (?) and the computer allows them to relax and mingle in a way they feel comfortable (?) Maybe they&#039;re used to this and that&#039;s what they want to do...It&#039;s fine. It definitely was a learning experience for me to witness this behaviour. I never saw this before. So...now I know better. And it&#039;s fine with me. Mitch was right it would have happened anyway, so, may as well get used to it. Oufff... alright... Sorry if I upset anyone. I just wanted to get this off my chest. It *was* an excellent conference. I loved my time there and I admire Mark and Bob, and Andrea and Cat for *all* that they do. Bill Deys did a good thing bringing the back channel and perhaps in the future it will evolve into something completely different...who knows? Maybe we&#039;re all going to be on the &#039;clickaty click&#039; with special mind devices...haha one day...like the matrix. Maybe the conference will be one giant game or one giant orgasm or one giant puzzle.... alright...should I send this? ok here I go...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, of course this is &#8220;the new reality.&#8221; Everyone knows that. I totally could have brought my laptop (I decided not to) and participated in what you were doing and I would have been just as happy doing it. Some people chose the &#8220;clickaty click&#8221; and some people chose the traditional way of listening. Your choice is valid in any case. However, after reading the chat log, I pretty much decided that my choice was, indeed, the right one for me. There wasn&#8217;t anything informative in the chat&#8230;hahaha&#8230;was just a bunch of stuff about Mitch glasses and mild flirting (as usual.) So,fine, if that&#8217;s what you choose in your life, to talk about Mitch glasses&#8230;go ahead! We&#8217;re all free and this is &#8220;the new reality&#8221; as Mitch said. I don&#8217;t have a problem with this then&#8230; I am happy with my choice, though, to listen the old fashion way.Alright&#8230;this is it and that&#8217;s the way it is&#8230; Everyone can adjust their own way then&#8230;and make their own choice.It was a good thing to talk about it, I see that everyone has a different take on it. I would say to just let it go and accept that it&#8217;s the way it is and move on. If I ever present, I will know that people on the &#8220;clickaty click&#8221; aren&#8217;t listening and I will present to the ones who are listening. No problem&#8230;I do that when I teach. The ones who listen are the ones I care about more anyway&#8230;so&#8230;it&#8217;s all fine and good. If you want to pay X amount of money to be sitting there and goof off, it&#8217;s totally your choice. All work and no play makes for a boring life eh? So play away! Go ahead! Have fun! Life is too short. My personal choice is to be engaged with my two ears and eyes and heart with the people there. Your choice is to be engaged in the chat at an other level.Maybe the traditional social interaction of the conference (meeting people, shaking hands, meeting new people) is making *some* people feel shy (?) and the computer allows them to relax and mingle in a way they feel comfortable (?) Maybe they&#8217;re used to this and that&#8217;s what they want to do&#8230;It&#8217;s fine. It definitely was a learning experience for me to witness this behaviour. I never saw this before. So&#8230;now I know better. And it&#8217;s fine with me. Mitch was right it would have happened anyway, so, may as well get used to it. Oufff&#8230; alright&#8230; Sorry if I upset anyone. I just wanted to get this off my chest. It *was* an excellent conference. I loved my time there and I admire Mark and Bob, and Andrea and Cat for *all* that they do. Bill Deys did a good thing bringing the back channel and perhaps in the future it will evolve into something completely different&#8230;who knows? Maybe we&#8217;re all going to be on the &#8216;clickaty click&#8217; with special mind devices&#8230;haha one day&#8230;like the matrix. Maybe the conference will be one giant game or one giant orgasm or one giant puzzle&#8230;. alright&#8230;should I send this? ok here I go&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Deys</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2734</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Deys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2734</guid>
		<description>Wow this blew up! I&#039;m totally with Mitch on this. As the one who threw up the chat I did have control on banning people from it but I don&#039;t personally believe in that. I, of course, was there and understood all the comments in context and didn&#039;t see anything wrong with them. Even if I did I probably wouldn&#039;t have moderated in a open chat room like that. Maybe the community would have rose to the task if it had have been needed, I don&#039;t know. We do have to remember the only way to stop any sort of back channel is to make people check cell phones at the door and not have WiFi! If it hadn&#039;t happened in that chat room, or people didn&#039;t like the moderator (me) they would have found a new place to chat under their own control. Lets face it anyone can try and stop this but, just like the new media/podcasting movement we will not allow anyone to silence us. Good or Bad it&#039;s just our nature!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow this blew up! I&#8217;m totally with Mitch on this. As the one who threw up the chat I did have control on banning people from it but I don&#8217;t personally believe in that. I, of course, was there and understood all the comments in context and didn&#8217;t see anything wrong with them. Even if I did I probably wouldn&#8217;t have moderated in a open chat room like that. Maybe the community would have rose to the task if it had have been needed, I don&#8217;t know. We do have to remember the only way to stop any sort of back channel is to make people check cell phones at the door and not have WiFi! If it hadn&#8217;t happened in that chat room, or people didn&#8217;t like the moderator (me) they would have found a new place to chat under their own control. Lets face it anyone can try and stop this but, just like the new media/podcasting movement we will not allow anyone to silence us. Good or Bad it&#8217;s just our nature!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Brodbeck</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2732</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Brodbeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2732</guid>
		<description>Mitch, point taken.

Yeah, the positive surely outweigh any negative from PAB which was small to begin with.

I will use lan anecdote from teaching intro psych a few years back.  So there were maybe oh 100 or so students in the class.  They were a fairly unruly group (the 2003 first year at Memorial was an odd bucnh, dunno why....) and they talked a lot.  Now one expects that in a large group.  

One day I was doing my thing and I heard a conversation, rather clearly, about a girl a guy picked up in the bar the night before.  I stopped the class and asked him what she was wearing....

OK, another anecdote, same class.  I actually was teaching about divided attention.  When we listen to two conversations at once we usually cannot get the content from the unattended one.  We cannot even tell if the language changes (cool result, replicated a number of times).  So I was actually teaching about that.  I am (functionally) bilingual, so I switched into French.  Now NF is not noted as a province of French speakers...  Most of them had no idea I had switched.

When they talked about what I was talking about I never got distracted.

I also once told them the human eye was filled with a rich caramel centre, but that is, alas, another story....

Thanks for this post and discussion Bob.

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mitch, point taken.</p>
<p>Yeah, the positive surely outweigh any negative from PAB which was small to begin with.</p>
<p>I will use lan anecdote from teaching intro psych a few years back.  So there were maybe oh 100 or so students in the class.  They were a fairly unruly group (the 2003 first year at Memorial was an odd bucnh, dunno why&#8230;.) and they talked a lot.  Now one expects that in a large group.  </p>
<p>One day I was doing my thing and I heard a conversation, rather clearly, about a girl a guy picked up in the bar the night before.  I stopped the class and asked him what she was wearing&#8230;.</p>
<p>OK, another anecdote, same class.  I actually was teaching about divided attention.  When we listen to two conversations at once we usually cannot get the content from the unattended one.  We cannot even tell if the language changes (cool result, replicated a number of times).  So I was actually teaching about that.  I am (functionally) bilingual, so I switched into French.  Now NF is not noted as a province of French speakers&#8230;  Most of them had no idea I had switched.</p>
<p>When they talked about what I was talking about I never got distracted.</p>
<p>I also once told them the human eye was filled with a rich caramel centre, but that is, alas, another story&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thanks for this post and discussion Bob.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238&#038;cpage=1#comment-2730</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bobgoyetche.com/?p=238#comment-2730</guid>
		<description>Great discussion thread.

Public apology for anyone taking I said &quot;seriously&quot; as I was using the chat room to goof around... not to hurt anyone. I know I did not type one single line of &quot;serious&quot; - ever.

Let&#039;s focus on the POSITIVE! We raised some great money, donated tons of books and we all connected, learned and networked.

We can&#039;t moderate or control this. If it wasn&#039;t the chatroom, it would have been Facebook, twitter or a Blog posting. This is the new reality - I&#039;m used to it as a speaker and an attendee.

People should be sensitive to those presenting, and as a presenter, I am comfortable knowing that some (sadly, sometimes more) are just going to tune out and do their thing.

So again, apologies to anyone who took the chat room seriously. I think those involved (like me) just saw it as a way to muck around.

Do you really think &quot;orange&quot; is my safety word ;)

Let&#039;s move this conversation on to what we did get done: personal growth, great new friendships, lifelong learnings and making a difference in the local community.

Way to go Bob, Mark, Cat and Andrea!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion thread.</p>
<p>Public apology for anyone taking I said &#8220;seriously&#8221; as I was using the chat room to goof around&#8230; not to hurt anyone. I know I did not type one single line of &#8220;serious&#8221; &#8211; ever.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s focus on the POSITIVE! We raised some great money, donated tons of books and we all connected, learned and networked.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t moderate or control this. If it wasn&#8217;t the chatroom, it would have been Facebook, twitter or a Blog posting. This is the new reality &#8211; I&#8217;m used to it as a speaker and an attendee.</p>
<p>People should be sensitive to those presenting, and as a presenter, I am comfortable knowing that some (sadly, sometimes more) are just going to tune out and do their thing.</p>
<p>So again, apologies to anyone who took the chat room seriously. I think those involved (like me) just saw it as a way to muck around.</p>
<p>Do you really think &#8220;orange&#8221; is my safety word <img src='http://www.bobgoyetche.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s move this conversation on to what we did get done: personal growth, great new friendships, lifelong learnings and making a difference in the local community.</p>
<p>Way to go Bob, Mark, Cat and Andrea!!!</p>
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